Fibromyalgia Series

This is a talk I did a few weeks back for an Auckland Fibromyalgia Society. Unfortunately, due to technical difficulties I wasn’t able to get the whole talk filmed.

However, I’ve broken into segments and will be uploading them over the next few days. This talk was intended for an varied audience. There were people who had had fibromyalgia for many years and were very knowledgeable, as well as people who had just been diagnosed, or had family members with fibromyalgia.

Willard McGowan,jr. July 13, 2011

Hi Dr.Kuttner ! As a personal trainer I wondered if your organizzation offered “CECs” (continuing education credits – classes taken by trainers like myself to maintain our certifications) for this Trigger Points program that you offer ??

Robert Hudyma July 22, 2011

Hello Dr. Kuttner,
Do you or are you planning to prepare a downloadable transcript of your talk.?
My wife has suffered from FM for the last years as a result of a serious motor vehicle accident. Although we have consulted some high profile chronic pain specialists here in Toronto who are in agreement with her condition, the main issue as you have mentioned in your talk, is the medical and legal professions. Much of our battle is just trying to educate the lawyers and her other consulting doctors to her condition.
On an eighteen point scale of diagnosis for FM, she scored a perfect 18. Not the
stellar result one relishes in.
A third party opinion, such as yours, would be invaluable to us in providing this education.
Robert Hudyma
Toronto, Ontario, Canada

dave July 23, 2011

The work you do is so helpful and inspiring, thank you thank you. Dave

Susan Howard, Tampa, FL July 23, 2011

I heard recently that researchers into Fibromyalgia believe that a great contributor to this syndrome in women can be a woman having a hysterectomy or having a C section during childbirth – that having these operations mars tissues and nerves and also resulting scar tissue can add to the onset of Fibromyalgia. Is this possible?

    Jonathan July 25, 2011

    Hello Susan,

    I have heard of this before, though I haven’t checked on the research myself yet. If you listen to my interview with Cassidy (an accomplished athlete with fibromyalgia) here: he talks about this connection as well.

shelley kaufman July 24, 2011

I am so glad this issue is getting more and more recognized in the press and throughout society. Personally, I believe that fibro manifests itself in a number of ways and just because you are diagnosed with fibro does not mean you will get it the same way. I know men with fibro and women who have never had a knife on them at all with fibro. I had fibro from undiagnosed childhood pstd and repetitive stress disorder for years before it went full-blown when I was in a car accident. Then I spent more years and years convincing a host of doctors that I was not just trying to get attention. I am glad that fibro is now recognized as a sub-type of arthritis. When I did research on it a few years back I realized that what my grandmother called rheumatism is actually still called that in Europe and is a recognized name there for fibro. The United States is way behind in recognizing diseases of this soft tissue kind and because of the health insurance lobby and the corporate/wall street boot on the neck of employees it will probably never be recognized. As long as the U.S. society allows this kind of hampering of disease recognition, we will never get the disability or insurance coverage we need to move forward. I have had to work out my own programs of recovery and am delighted to have found your post.

John MacLeod July 25, 2011

Thanks Jonathan for the email re FIBROMYALGIA.

My background is Diploma of Health Science(Paramedic) and I have also completed a Diploma of Remedial Massage at National College of Traditional Medicine in Melbourne 1998. I have since then worked part-time as a masseur, concentrating on remedial deep tissue massage with some trigger point therapy or acupressure. I use a myofascial T bar on various clients who I consider would benefit from this, and are rather more large muscled and bulky as far as their body shape permits.

I recently had a motor vehicle accident 7th January 2011 with no apparent injury other than SEVERE WHIPLASH PAIN, which continued for a matter of a few weeks, and since have suffered ongoing chronic pain in my legs, mainly left, arms, shoulders and lower back. I have had continuing treatment from a masseur who also specialises in TOUCH FOR HEALTH,KIENESIOLOGY AND TALK TO THE BRAIN modalities, but there is still something that escapes us both with all this.

I would dearly like to know more about Substance P and Serotonin levels and the appropriate tests that could be followed up with, and whether these would be possible to obtain through my local GP (I’m sure I could).

AGAIN thankyou for the email, I believe I have a greater understanding of some of my symptoms now especially the continuous movement of location of pain and the variety of pain types.

Hi Jonathan,
I did finally find your first print-outs re Trigger Points, they are priceless!
It is amazing just how many medical people do not or will not learn about them, especially here in Australia, I’m still trying to catch up. If doctors etc DID learn about them, just imagine how much pain, suffering & frustration would be prevented, not to mention social & family life?
It is so misunderstood, I tend to keep to myself. Have very few friends now, as most were older than me and now gone on to better things.
Your stuff is great Jonathan, if I ever come to NZ, would love to meet you. We’ve just returned from USA. Stayed (lived with) 2 others with FM & CMP for a week. Out of 99% of those I know who have CMP, I am by far the fittest & most mobile, —– could that be because i am very aware plus get the proper treatment for TRPs that I can’t reach? I get letters from everywhere asking for help etc. I have real spinal problems now, & due to constant spasm from CMP, now it is too late to do anything & last year I refused spinal surgery, as it wouldn’t help much and way too risky.
Keep well,
Danni J

Naomi Kuttner July 30, 2011

Hi there – this is Naomi – the tech support for this site. Jonathan Kuttner’s away for the next week or so – visiting family in Canada. He’ll get back to the comments here soon though.

Best Regards

Loretta Peterson August 6, 2011

Hi Dr. Kuttner,
I am very happy to find your Trigger Point and Fibromyalgia series very interesting and useful. Thank you for your ongoing efforts to help people understand what is going on in their bodies and how to self help. Your a treasure! Thanks again, Loretta Peterson, Tillamook, Oregon

Willard McGowan,jr. August 15, 2011

Dr.Kuttner, thank you and I found your “Osteoarthritis” discussion informattive and helpful ! Willard McGowan (Houston, Texas)

Julie Ash October 18, 2011

Hi. I listened to your lectures and felt sad and that the only solutions you had found are drugs. Fibromyalia cannot be put in to a box by doctors.I had a complementary buisness and spent time and listened to many people. The people all had difficult lives and internalised there pain to the extent that it manifested on a physical level. (emotions also lie in tissues and cells) and the person who talked of Deep tissue massage is right in what they said. Drugs only treat the symptons and not the cure .. not treating the root opf the problem. and sentancesg suffers to a life of pain where they just have to accept it and be victim of something for the rest of their lives. The people need to be empowered to take control of their own healing instead of just accepting the Doctors as Gods. The emotional and spiritual aspects of people today are not being met just popping pills.There are so many Complementary Therapies that can help.The problem with most people is they either are so closed minded and scepital they dont want to heal themselves because it means change and responsiblity and perhaps they get lots of sympathy being ill and they dont always want to give it up. The longer people stay in groups talking about it, it just becomes a form of comfortable dependency which people never escape from. there are so many issues tied up with this condition and as much as you are trying to help (and you come across as a caring kind person I feel that there is more you could be doing. I do Astrological birth charts for people and it is amazing how it can point out where problems can stem from either from childhood when they had extreme difficulties. we are all different and respond to life events in differnet ways. I know some Doctors who use charts to ascess a paitents “make up” and can save lots of time with misdiagnosis and drugs that cost money and have side effects. We live in a New Age where the old ways just are not working for people and this age is bringing change in the way we look at illness. Even though many Therapies have been around for thousand of years. There is hope and help out there, it doesnt have to be this way. I would very much recommend to your clients that they try and find a Cranial Sacral Osteopath (not just an Osteopath) Massage and Reiki healing, Kinesiolagy,. Deep Tissue…. just do some research, talk to the Therapists. I have also met people that moan and moan for years with out doing anything about it or opening their mind. Makes you think that if you are in enough pain you will try ANYTHING. best wishes. Julie Ash. England.

Julie Dodgson October 23, 2011

I was conformed w/FMS about 6mo. ago. My mother later
told me she felt that I’ve had it for quite sometime! She has
had it for over 20yrs. as well as my dad’s sister!
what is your opinion on the genitic factors?

Cathy Kingsborough November 12, 2011

I agree with Julie. I have found a cranio sacral masage therapist and she has helped me through many challenges throughout this past year. Drugs are certainly not the answer to everything as society has seemed to accept that they are. I am a person with chronic pain and I would rather do something alternative to help myself. This week I am going to se an accupuncturist who has helped many people with chronic pain issues.

Gerry Young November 18, 2011

Thank you Dr Kuttner for your very infornative help on the videos .

They have been a great source of help to me.

David Robinson December 13, 2011

I would be interested to hear your thoughts on Polymylgia.After following your trigger point emails it turned out this is what i had.Im down to 3 x 5ml tablets of prednisalone per day with good results.However when i drop to 2 the PMR starts to return.

Deo P. Corcuera May 4, 2012


Thanks a lot for the those enlightening insights and materials about bodily pain. My question is “How can we differentiate chronic pains cause by Fibromyalgia from that of pain caused by Trigger Points? They both cause pain and discomfort chronically.


John, from TX August 11, 2012

Yep, for 22 years I’ve wrestled this dragon. What has helped? Correcting my hypothyroid and adrenal exhaustion. However, there is more to it. I’ve studied this for 20 years and I’ve tried everything medical, physiological, psychological, emotional, chemical, osteopathic, myofascial release, deep tissue massage, yada yada yada.

As FMS affects multiple systems and not just muscle pain – IBS, insomnia, etc.,..if you have it, you know the list – someone needs to trace this back to “First Cause” in the cascade of symptoms. The endocrine system starting at the hypothalamus seems a likely starting point.

Inflammation, elevated Substance P levels, the way it flares up and down (re: Hashimoto’s Thyroidosis, which can be a wild ride of hyper and hypo syptoms. Look it up….ugh.) and that it affects various muscles and organs on a seemingly random and arbitrary basis points to a dysfunctional endocrine system, which affects everything.

And since one of the hallmarks of FMS is chronic insomnia, (one of my greatest fears is a sleepless night, because the next day is like a day in hell…and that’s a noun, not an expletive!), that seems logical. HOWEVER, there are other factors which can affect brain function: Leaky Gut Syndrome, adrenal function, exposure to toxic materials (even msg and sugar) and more.

Dr. John C. Lowe, who treated thousands of FMS patients found that for about 90% of his patients, hypo-metabolism was involved. Check the list and see how many of your FMS symptoms match hypo-thyroid/hypo-adrenal symptoms.

BTW -Most of his patients experienced a full recovery by using his metabolic rehabilitation program. And it’s definitely not just writing scripts for drugs.

Sadly, Dr. Lowe died last January. You can still find some of the HUGE amount of material he had on his website by taking the link above. Also – you might want to check:

Dr.Kuttner, I have watched the entire video series, but I will!

THANK YOU for addressing this nightmare! The sooner we slay this dragon, the better!


Sue March 7, 2013

Did not read all. What about Lyme? I was Finally diagnosed with FMS, about 4-5 yrs of complaining. This was after heart conduction attacks. Three (3) times heartbeat kicked up to over 250. What happens with this, is that, only two (2) chambers of heart are working.
My skin did not fit, feld really weid, sweatie, but not fearful. Three times flatlined to re set. No further prob till this year.
I believe this was when tick disease, such as Lyme
My PCP, did not read full report of cardiologist who performed mapping (gave med which would reve up heart, to view if it went into previous tachycardia. Since it did he used one of the nine catheters to my heart to ablate (Burn)
My PCP just read the part where, after the cauterization, the cardiologist, shots the med to reve up, again, to ascertain, if he got the bad area.. It said, no illegular beats. This is the only thing my PCP read.
Guess he thought I was mental, since I was on antidepressant. This junk happens so often. Did he think that the ER stopped my heart three times for nothing? No prob did not read ER reports. Don’t believe for a minute that all your docs communicate.

Then Rheumatologist wasted four years. He diagnosed FMS, without the requirement to rule out other conditions, which could cause those symptoms.

I didn’t know about fibromyalgia, the doc just gave me s magazine to read.
This was when no md’s even believed in it, just like no belief in Lyme Crime. Ten yrs before I figured it out. What egos.

sanjay March 16, 2013

good information
trigger point is very helpful and gvie lot of relief
loosen your muscle and blood flow is good
lacitic acid is break and mix in the blood

Laura April 17, 2013

I have not been diagnosed with fm yet, however, I have thought I’ve had this for years. I started out 10 years ago being told I had MVP, to then finding out it was my Thyroid. Started out as Hypothyroid, to now find I’m now Hyperthyroid. As that went misdiagnosed for so long, I was then diagnosed with Graves. As I kept bouncing around between Hypo and Hyper, now have been recently been diagnosed with Hashimotos and some other ANA disorder? After reading alot of other comments on here, Not only do I find these all seem to be related to one another, I also find out it’s hereditary….My mom tells me she has it! So really, how does a person know if they are suffering from the pain and symptoms of fm, or if it’s really all the other diagnoses problems?

Kell May 17, 2014

I believe a video is missing between Part 7 & Part 8 Video. Part 7 says you should understand your pain & exercise and Part 8 jumps to the tail end of a discussion on medications. Any advice to find the information in-between? I would like treatment ideas, but not interested in taking medication if possible. Thanks.

Jonathan May 18, 2014

Hi Kelly,

You’re quite correct – we had some technical difficulties at that section so was a part skipped. I can certainly film when I have another talk on fibromyalgia (I do them from time to time) and post it up on this site for you.

Manpreet October 6, 2014

Dr. Jonathan, Thank you for the wonderful information about FM ,the series. It was very useful. You are very right about the brain and body connection. Becoming the observer helps greatly and so does meditation as the CHILL PILL.

Shira Yashin February 16, 2015

I was diagnosed in 1993, after working 16 years as a court reporter, a very stressful job. I spent the next 9 years (forced to quit working a year after diagnosis) looking for the right treatment. I have seen a chiropractor regularly, which helps, but my actual treatment is guaifenesin. I know doctors don’t like this, and they rely on a single 1995 study using a grand total of 18 subjects, when at that time no one was sure how the protocol worked, so the results were inconclusive. I started guai in May 2002 and within two years was living a basically normal life (except for now going through menopause, with some of the same symptoms). The doctors I’ve worked with and know of have treated thousands of fibro patients with guai, and except for some that are supersensitive to guai, they’ve all improved as long as they follow the protocol. I have personally gotten several people to start guai, and they have all improved. I even had one 75-year-old lady start it without telling me because we volunteered together and she saw how much better I was getting, and she also improved, even at her age. Fibro is definitely genetic – my mother had it (it used to be called rheumatism) and my younger son. Guai is inexpensive (I buy mine on Ebay) and easy to use once you understand how it works. I would urge anyone with fibro to watch this video and familiarize yourself with the protocol before you make any judgment about it.

Lynda Nolan June 8, 2015

Hi Jonathan. This series on FMS is really good and especially because you are in NZ like me. I was diagnosed with FMS June 2014 and it has been hard to find encouraging explanations that actually give you a bit of hope in managing it. Thanks.

[…] This series by Dr. Kutner is a great series for those newly diagnosed or introducing fibromyalgia to others.  I can’t comment on his products, but the videos are easy to understand and explain the experience of the process of being diagnosed well.   […]

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